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[理工/大学] 再次咨询有经验的前辈--关于孩子大学选择

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发表于 16-7-2014 19:16:48|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
US vs UK admissions
US universities tend to try to maximize international student variety (since each student brings in his own culture to the school), and will hence try to take in applicants from a larger number of countries while keeping in check the numbers from each. Singapore fields a large number of highly competitive (and to a certain extent, homogenous) applicants, despite (and due to) our small population and geographical size, and are hence slightly disadvantaged. UK universities are less subjective in their admissions approach as they make their offers mostly based on grades, and they also recognize our A levels, and hence are easier to get into for the Singaporean applicant.

Analysis of numbers, part 1: Oxford and Cambridge versus US universities
Oxford and Cambridge: 17.8% and 21% respectively
US: from 5.9% for Harvard, up to 16.2% for Cornell.
Most people use admission rates as a gauge of how difficult it is to make a successful application to the university. This is not a good method. I hence would like to give a more accurate view of the admissions difficulty, as opposed to blindly comparing these numbers.
On UCAS (the centralized admissions system used by all UK universities), the mean rate of acceptance across all 302 UK universities/colleges is 17.3%, while the median rate of acceptance is 22%. This is opposed to that of US universities, where the admissions rate increases as the reputation of the university decreases, with Harvard having an admissions rate of 5.9% and some state universities having a 90+% admission rates. For example, University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign is one of the top public universities in the nation, and has a world-famous engineering programme. However, it has a very large 68% admission rate, which is by no means a measure of its standard. It is clear that UK and US admissions difficulty cannot be accurately compared using admission rates.
At 20% or so, the admissions rate for Oxford and Cambridge is actually deceptively high. The main reason for this is because you cannot apply to both universities. Given the similarities in both universities in social and academic standing, undergraduate teaching, collegiate life and history, it can be reasonably assumed that anyone who applies to Oxford or Cambridge too would, if given the chance, apply to the other university. In fact, Oxford and Cambridge are probably two of the most similar universities around. The admission rates can hence hypothetically halve and fall to 10% effectively if you remove the rule, as the applicant pool to each of the two universities is assumed to be doubled. This is a good theoretical admission rate you can use if you want compare them against US universities, since in the US system you can apply to as many universities as you want to maximize your chances (and admission rates are hence lower, but enrollment/yield rates correspondingly lower too).
Another reason is that in the US, you can apply to as many universities as you want, while in UK, you can only apply to 5 universities as that is the limit for UCAS. Hence, many students will not try their luck with Oxbridge if they do not think their odds are good, opting to have another ‘match’ or ‘safety’ school on their list. Meanwhile, US students are more likely to apply to the top universities as it doesn’t come with any cost (other than the time spent on the application).
The presence of a test as well as multiple interviews with faculty members, as well as the clear (and sole) criteria of academic competency, and also the lack of financial aid also cause some form of self-selection within the candidates, reducing the size of the applicant pool and hence increasing the percentage of admissions. This is contrasted against US universities where affirmative action policies, subjective admissions (US universities like to say that you might just have the subjective ‘edge’ that complements the university’s character, be it in athletics, academic achievement or social work etc) and generous financial aid (including need-blind aid for international applicants at HYPM-Dartmouth-Amherst) actually increases the number of applicants, hence lowering their admission rates.
Another way to look at it is that Oxford and Cambridge admissions are actually like a restrictive Early Action application, as restrictive EA/ED prevents you from applying to other universities. A comparison with the admission rates for the EA/ED admissions rate can also give you a better comparison between US universities and Oxford and Cambridge.
For Oxford and Cambridge, you also cannot apply to the different courses in the same university, except in very specific scenarios. For example, Oxford is willing to reconsider your application for Physics and Philosophy as a pure Physics application if you fail to make it into Physics and Philosophy.
Oxford and Cambridge
US Universities
Generally no financial aid (Cambridge offers a small scholarship for students with demonstrated financial need – a separate application needs to be made, after Cambridge has made you the offer for a place)
>Not as many applicants from less-developed countries as they require financial aid.
Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Amherst and MIT offer need-blind financial aid for international applicants.Cornell / Georgetown are need-blind for internationals but do not guarantee to meet the full demonstrated need.
>You are significantly disadvantaged if you apply for financial aid in non-need-blind universities.
>Need-blind universities are very competitive.
Admission process involves
> UCAS application (simple essay, 1 referral)
>Application is course-based
> Admissions tests, be it Thinking SkillsAssessment or subject-specific aptitude tests
>Interviews with academic faculty, be it real-life (Cambridge), or Skype (Oxford, with the exception of medicine)
>Admissions is done at a departmental/course-level for Oxford, and college-level for Cambridge
Admission process involves
>Commonapp (except MIT and UC) (commonapp essay, 2 referrals), plus SATs or perhaps APs
>Supplementary application (specific to individual schools) – short response questions, perhaps more essays, etcetera which are more aligned towards the school’s “character”
>Admissions is done on a college-wide level (i.e. the same admissions team processes all the applicants for undergraduate studies regardless of intended major)
Highly specialized courses with little/no opportunity to take ‘modules’ outside of your subject area.Admissions hinges entirely on academic aptitude, academic potential, passion and interest in subject.
>You are disadvantaged if you are not exceptionally good/talented in the subject you applied in, no matter how well-rounded you are. Explains why many, many ‘Straight A’ students are rejected.
Liberal arts – You only need to meet the general distributive requirements, as well as the requirements for your major.
Admissions is holistic – Focuses on leadership positions, extra-curricular achievements, essay (personal voice and drive), and demonstrated achievement (for example, olympiads etc).
>You are disadvantaged if your extra-curriculars are lacklustre, no matter how intelligent / academically strong you are. Academic strength cannot be shown in a US application except through demonstrated achievement in academic competitions.
Explains why some extremely talented ‘deans lister’ students are rejected.
Deadlines -Mid Sept – Cambridge COPA+UCAS
Mid Oct – Oxford UCAS (no COPA equivalent)
Late Oct – Early Nov – Cambridge Interviews and TSA
Early Nov – Oxford aptitude tests
Early Dec – Oxford Skype interviews
Early Jan – Release of offers/rejections + Cambridge Winter Pool
Late Jan – End of Cambridge Winter Pool
Deadlines-Start of Nov – Early Action, Early Decision submission
Early-Mid Dec – EA/ED results
Late Dec-Early Jan – Deadline for Regular Decision
Feb – March – Alumni interviews (casual interviews / not entirely essential – nothing like Oxbridge interviews)
Late March / Early April – Release of offers/rejections + Waitlist
Early May – End of waitlist results


Admission process

Differences in admission process between UK and US universities and Oxbridge

The most important difference is that in the UK, those who decide on the admissions are actually choosing those they are going to teach in the future, while in the US, the admissions office are not part of the teaching faculty. In the UK, you application is made towards a course, while in US your application is made towards the University as a whole. In the UK your applications are evaluated by the department that offers the course, while in the US a centralized admission office filters through all the undergraduate applications made towards the university.

For example in the UK, you can apply to Mechanical Engineering, Chemical Engineering, and Physics to Imperial. Your application will then be evaluated by each department who each will make you an admissions decision. Admission is hence by course; you can get rejected for Chemical and Mechanical engineering, but receive an offer for Physics. To give you a rough gauge of the scale of the endeavor, which is the number of applicants each department assesses, there are 1062, 798 and 1176 applications made towards the Mechanical Engineering, Chemical Engineering and Physics departments respectively. Interviews are possible; some departments will invite shortlisted local applicants down for a visit, and may call up overseas applicants. Imperial and UCL are also known to conduct interviews via email where you may be asked to answer academic questions within stipulated time frames (from 45 minutes to even 7 days). Interview questions can both be academic ones, which usually involve explaining scientific phenomena for science-based courses, or general ones, which involves learning about your general interest and commitment towards the subject, as well as your future plans and aspirations.

In the US however, you make an application for a university, and your major is merely indicated as a preference as most, if not all, US schools operate on the Liberal Arts model, where you only declare your academic major in your sophomore (2nd) year. Let’s say you are applying to Brown, Cornell and Northwestern. The admissions office for these universities will be evaluating 31000, 32655 and 30975 applications respectively.

In Oxford and Cambridge, applications are split across all colleges. Let’s say you applied to Oxford, to a college with only 4 places (and 1 tutor) for your course. You will probably be up against another 24 applicants or so. Through the admissions test, the tutor will shortlist say, 15 applicants for interview, although this step is only applies to Oxford which shortlists based on admissions test results. Cambridge interviews most applicants. He then conducts the interviews, and offers places to say, 5 of them, with the fifth offer being either a reallocation or an open offer (like all universities, more offers are given than the number of places available, just in case some offer-holders turn down the offer / do not meet the conditions).

As you can see, in the Oxford and Cambridge admissions process is done on a very personal level as it involves most, if not all, undergraduate tutors. Each tutor selects the students whom he are going to personally teach for the 3-4 years, instead of merely making the decision on behalf of the department, or university; he will be facing these students for their subsequent years in very small tutorial groups. Of course, admission decisions are also discussed on a departmental level to ensure that the admissions standards are moderated. Interviews and admissions tests are scored to provide an objective evaluation of all candidates for the department.

For example, in Oxford Physics, after the admissions test, candidates are placed into 3 bands, A, B and C. Band A candidates are most likely to be offered a place, Band C candidates are not likely to be offered a place, with Band B candidates being in the middle. After the interview stage, the department will come to scrutinize the Band A candidates whom tutors have decided to reject and Band C candidates which tutors have decided to accept. The decision to accept or reject Band B candidates is left to the tutors’ discretion. Of course, this process of course differs across departments.

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发表于 16-7-2014 21:12:19|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
小狮租房
金牌讲师 发表于 16-7-2014 14:54
如何您认出我,请别暴露我身份,谢谢。

好。


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发表于 16-7-2014 21:15:03|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
look5 发表于 16-7-2014 19:03
去年底没有申请学校吗?我孩子在A-Level成绩还没出来的时候就申请学校了,先放进去SAT的成绩,A-Level成绩 ...

写得很赞,很受用。谢谢你。

点评

谢谢老大,给我加分!  详情 回复 发表于 16-7-2014 22:18
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发表于 16-7-2014 23:52:08|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
look5 发表于 16-7-2014 19:03
去年底没有申请学校吗?我孩子在A-Level成绩还没出来的时候就申请学校了,先放进去SAT的成绩,A-Level成绩 ...

谢谢指导。看来申请文章真的重要。
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发表于 16-7-2014 23:53:37|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
我要开心 发表于 16-7-2014 19:16
US vs UK admissionsUS universities tend to try to maximize international student variety (since each ...

谢谢开心,仔细阅读了。英国学校也难报啊。
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发表于 17-7-2014 00:04:24|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层

谢谢老鼠。平时跟儿子交流学校不多。他当兵也没有啥时间。还好,已经把SAT考掉了。
但是对于择校和如何报名,我感觉他也知之不多。但愿我感觉错误。
以前他读书时我们也没有考虑那么多。只是说先把考试弄好。反正当2年兵还有时间报名。

我这老爸,现在懵懵懂懂。没有方向了。

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发表于 17-7-2014 08:47:47|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 寂寞有害 于 17-7-2014 08:49 编辑

不暴露啊,赶快改。:lol
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发表于 17-7-2014 08:51:08|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
不过据我所知,大多顶级名校都木有精算专业
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发表于 17-7-2014 09:17:40|来自:新加坡 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
可以读统计嘛
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发表于 17-7-2014 11:06:45|来自:新加坡 | 显示全部楼层
金牌讲师 发表于 16-7-2014 23:53
谢谢开心,仔细阅读了。英国学校也难报啊。

楼主的孩子成绩真的很好,特别是在当兵期间还将SAT II 考完并考到这么好的成绩,恭喜!英国的报名马上要开始了。担心的是那些TEST和INTERVIEW,楼主的孩子当兵能请出假吗?美国学校的报名稍晚些,INTERVIEW也不是必须的,准备起来容易些。我家孩子同学当时拿到英国的法律,当兵推迟了一年,第二年请了一些假就去英国读书了,3年后毕业。从这点来说,读英国大学会省钱些。
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